In Response – Are You Serious?
I received a comment from a blog reader today and I believe I need to post her comment and my response. Thoughts are appreciated in the comment section below!
Dear *commentor*,
Thank you for your comment on my website today. I would like to engage in conversation about the issues at hand, and attempt to shed light on the way a man’s brain works. You wrote:
[“I don’t like to use the word dumb but are you serious???? I’m pretty sure there are worse things in this world than posting a bra color and some weirdo commiting a “sin” (masturbating) to it. And Man Up?? How about you man up and realize that porno isn’t just a woman’s issue and if women stop taking their clothes off I’m pretty sure that gay men-on-men porno would still exist. And if you’re one of those men that are struggling with seeing a color posted then get off of Facebook and seek help ASAP. Woman up!’]
I sometimes get negative feedback about things I write, and I’m more than capable of handling the critiques. Please allow me to clarify. Yes, I’m very serious on this subject. Are there worse things in the world than this? Yes, absolutely. Does the content of the topic have effects on some men, yes, most definitely. I question your use of the word “weirdo” in this context – it seems out of place and unnecessary. Most men (even faithful Christian men) have/do/will have addiction issues to pornography and/or masturbation, and whether you know it or not, both are mortal sins. Bras are more to men than simply a piece of fabric, they represent more than just an undergarment. Bras are enticing and intriguing and may get a man’s mind racing with thoughts and emotions, and for some men, the chemicals in the brain plays tricks on them when the image or even thought of a bra pops in their heads. I know this may sound silly, and a bit off-base, but it’s the truth. Women’s minds don’t work like men’s minds do, but even the slightest image/thought can provoke a man to give into sexual temptations, thus leading him into sin.
The term “Man up!” is a term that I end all my posts with. It means, in simple terms, “Be a real man, live virtue!”. If this is offensive to you, that was not my intent.
The reason why I brought up women in pornography was not to place blame or shuck responsibility for men, but to bring to the light that the issues of pornography are occurring because of both genders. If the women of pornography held a higher standard for themselves, there would be no women in porn. The issue of homosexual pornography is all-together something different.
By stating that “if a man is struggling with seeing a color… seek help ASAP” you are missing my point. The point is that even the slightest sexual temptation can lead a man to sin. Men need women to help them along in the journey to holiness, not hinder them. It may seem ludacrous to waste time talking about things like this, but we have to talk about even the seemingly “small” issues. I assure you, the more we turn a blind eye to situations like this, the more we will allow ourselves to be okay with where the world is going. I am not okay with it, and that’s why I’m attempting to shed light on it.
Thanks for your time. If you have any thoughts, comments or questions, please send them my way.
Respectfully,
Dave
Dave, I loved your article and shared it on facebook and encouraged my sisters to share it as well. We’ve lost as women what it means to be modest and we need to be more mindful of our brothers in Christ.
Thank you!
Jamie
Dave, one word. AMEN!
God Bless.
Dear Dave,
First, I’d like to say I applaud you for your website and for your ministry for men in general. I enjoy reading many of your articles, and let there be no doubt we need more men in this fight against sin and for Godliness. I heard you speak at the FOCUS conference and was impressed with your talk and how upfront you are – it takes a lot of courage to be like that and go against the grain of society to lead men to fight the good fight. In this regard, I desire to be more like you.
And yet, in your most recent article, there are a number of things I take great issue with that I want to share, and in turn, which I hope you will post.
You said “And, on a related side note, did you all realize that if women stopped being in pornography, it would stop?”
1) If you are asking us to read this sentence purely literally, it’s simply not true; there are many forms of pornography that don’t involve women.
2) If you are asking us to look deeper to understand your meaning, then I think you still miss the point. You responded to a previous writer by saying, “The reason why I brought up women in pornography was not to place blame or shuck responsibility for men, but to bring to the light that the issues of pornography are occurring because of both genders.” How do you “bring to the light that the issues of pornography are occurring because of both genders” by only mentioning one of them? You would have been more accurate to have said “And, on a related side note, did you all realize that if women and men stopped being in pornography, it would stop?” A friend of mine, who is a girl, and who has straight-up told me that she has struggled with a porn addiction too, would then find that statement as accurate as us guys would.
Furthermore, it seems like you are trying to portray pornography as a simple issue where a woman just applies for a job in Los Angeles to be a pornography star just like any other occupation, and I don’t believe that is the case… at all.
I am not saying being involved in pornography production is not sinful; it should go without saying that it is.
But I am saying that I think it is a terribly desperate position to be in, and we as believers and as soldiers for Christ should understand the background of the situation at hand. Using the military analogy, we need to understand the reason BEHIND porn actors’ (who are also our brothers and sisters we are called to care for) decisions to get involved in it if we desire to have any hope to rescue them from the Devil’s Prisoner of War camps (the pornography industry). People involved in that business are hurting on the inside in a way most people can’t understand, and got involved in it for reasons ranging from sexual or emotional abuse as a child to financial desperation to, sadly, forced participation in some terrible instances. In an interview even Hugh Hefner directly admitted that he started Playboy as a direct reponse to the total emotional and physical isolation he had from his mother as a child growing up (she didn’t hug him or tell him she loved him I believe). If you are going to say “If the women of pornography held a higher standard for themselves, there would be no women in porn,” then we might as well say this about children born into drug addictions, otherwise loving-grandparents with gambling problems, and Vietnam Veterans with extreme PTSD who have huge drinking issues. Sure, I guess you can say they should be holding themselves to a higher standard too….
I guess I just found it offensive that you portrayed the image to be so black and white that if women held themselves to a higher standard, there would be no women in porn; it is not that simple. Is it an important issue? Perhaps one of the most important issues facing our society today. At its core, is the decision to get involed in porn (and gambling, and drinking) still an issue of free will and something of great concern to Christians? Of course it is!!! (And is perhaps a spiritual battle to which we need to send God’s “Special Forces” to help win) But such an important yet complicated issue demands a comprehensive understanding of and sensitivity to the problem in order to solve it, which I found your article terribly lacking in.
–
I would also like to remark on your comment:
“What I have a problem with is when women don’t actively insist on proper behavior from men. When women allow men to act in certain inappropriate ways, it opens the door for men everywhere to “blow it”.
Again, I think I understand your intention, but I find it miscommunicated. It isn’t women’s responsibility to “not allow us” to act certain ways; they are not “our brothers keeper” as the saying goes. We are responsibile and accountable to ourselves and God for how we act. Of course I do believe women should seek to avoid leading men to sin, but that is quite different than saying that they are responsible for how we act.
I haven’t looked through your site terribly in depth, but perhaps it might be helpful to write a posting for women about how mens’ minds work (if you haven’t written one already) so women can better understand some of the things you’ve written about? If you ever host guest bloggers I’d be happy to write such an article to equip our sisters with a better understanding of us men so we as brothers and sisters in Christ can work as a better team in this fight…. no doubt God’s military incorporates both genders too!
As Iron sharpens Iron –
a(nother) Naval Officer
Dave,
It is interesting to see how even something done for a virtuous cause can sometimes get tangled in the mess that man has made in our sinful ways. I absolutely agree that, had I read anything on facebook about the color of bra another woman was wearing, I would have struggled to not fantasize about that woman who so easily asked me to take notice of her. While she wanted to share with the world that she wants to promote breast cancer awareness and acknowledge women that have suffered because of breast cancer, us men are far from perfect, and without a clear understanding of the goal in posting the comment, we will fail to be TrueMen. What a beautiful thing it is to see that men and women think so differently, but when we realize this difference, we must always consider whether we are loving and protecting our brothers and sisters from failing.
Men and Women of God, take notice of our differences and rejoice!
Thanks Dave,
Matthew
I think some people have difficulty with your post negating the cause they’re trying to unite for. Posting a bra color may be kind of an odd way to raise awareness, in a man’s eyes, but bringing up any problem with a man’s sexual temptations with it, in their eyes, just makes them look like the bad guys in this instance. Moreover, solely bad guys. Their good cause has no good it anymore – it’s stripped of its intentions – when you paint such a picture. And that can be frustrating.
Dave, I want to say as a woman I am glad that you have brought this topic up. As women we do not realize how much influence we have on men to live virtuous or to live in sin. I wanted to point out that in the post from “commentor” she talked about masturbation and yes that is what could happen, I think we also have to remember that lustful thoughts are also sinful. I man does not have to take it to such an extreme of masturbation for him to sin. So when she says “Women Up” I hope that is what this post helps women do, live a virtuous life that encourages men to reach god’s call for them and not be just another temptation pulling them away.
My question is… how in the world is posting the color of your bra raising awareness about breast cancer? I recieved this email on facebook and it was simply telling me to post it to make “all the guys wonder.” That does not seem like it is posting for a virtuous cause, but rather to make a guys mind wander.
I have been brought up in a very modest home. We were taught to dress properly and remember that the clothes we where may attract certain guys. Such as dressing innappropriately will attract inappropriate guys. I completly agree that if women would STOP being the pornography men would stop looking at it.
Great post! Thanks for all these it really is nice having someone talk out about the true a virtuous things!
Thanks Dave. I am in college and used to live a terrible live of going out to parties for the sole reason of getting drunk and seeking out women to use for my pleasure. Since a whirlwind conversion back to the faith, God has really placed it on my heart to seek a chaste life. I was at your talk at the FOCUS conference and it gave me a lot of encouragement to continue my battle to be a virtuous man.
I’m so glad you pointed this out, because it was true. Since us men are visual creatures, every time a female friend or acquaintance of mine posted what color bra they were wearing, I couldn’t help but get a visual image in my mind. I felt like I was invading every female’s privacy, and that these women that I held in such high regards were exposing themselves to the online community. While I do applaud them for seeking awareness for a cause, I’m not exactly sure that this was the right way to do it.
Thanks for all you do Dave. Also, for any MAN seeking some encouragement on chastity, check out Jason Evert’s book “If You Really Loved Me”
I would like you to thank you Dave for your reply to that comment. As a woman, it is often very difficult to know what exactly could cause a guy to stumble. The more we understand about the way a guys mind works, the easier it is for me to try and help you guys and avoid dressing/acting in a way which would make things difficult for you.
Let’s all wear head-to-toe coverings then! It is so wrong to suggest it is a woman’s job to stop men from sinning. What about a man that loves women with short hair, or glasses, or high heels or any other item?
“The easier it is for me to try and help you guys and avoid dressing/acting in a way which would make things difficult for you.” << it is so sad to hear a women talk like this- again, we are not responsible for regulating men
As for the “women should stop being in pornography” I think you underestimate how many of those women have suffered from sexual abuse, rape, coercion, drug addiction and so on. On top of that, there is animated and computer generated pornography. Pornography is most definitely and always will be a man’s problem and a man’s making. You didn’t hear Jesus telling prostitutes to stop doing it cos they were making men sin. This is a sick and repulsive attitude, and I pray God opens YOUR eyes.
I understand the premise of your argument, but am a little puzzled about just how far you want women to take this. If just the thought or image of a bra is enough to put men at risk for giving into sexual temptations, I can’t imagine what a threat the bra department at Norstrom’s might pose. Should we fault Macy’s for selling something so suggestive as a bra? Similarly, should I stop discreetly breastfeeding in public? Believe it or not, breasts have uses besides the sexual fantasies of men. I’m using mine right now to nurse my son.
Jessica,
The point I was trying to make was not specifically about bras. The point I was trying to make wasn’t specifically about breasts, either. The point was to bring awareness to the fact that, even in situations where individuals might deem an action harmless, certain actions may have other and/or lasting effects outside of the person performing the action. To look outside one’s self is selflessness. To look only at life through a lens pointed directly at one’s self is selfishness.